Hi folks!

Let's get started. Are u proud being an Indonesian? Or am i proud being an Indonesian? I will surely answer that i am not proud of it. If i get the chance to move to other country, i will go at the first flight. Coz i am sick of it. Too many problems within this country, i.e corruption, downgraded behaviour and awareness, demonstration for unreliable things while there are still many things to look at within our country and domination of certain religion. Indonesia is SUCK! There will be no chance for this country to develop. It needs a VERY hard work and cooperation with the nation itself. Anyway, how can this country develop, if we do not unite! Shame on Indonesia. A Little damn country with a big mouth, acts as if it wants to help others while disaster and Poverty still threaten its own nation.
Anybody has the same opinion?

there was lot of discussion in BF about this but not using English..
well.. I'm proud to be an Indonesian, but somehow I need to move from this country to get a better life and comeback here again till the end of my life.
I love Indonesia, I was born here, I love the people, I love the food.. Yea I love my country..

But the problem is.. Indonesia still sick by now.. and with whom that this country can wish for repairing if it's not from our self as a youth generation to this country?

not really,actually..
same with leo,If i get the chance to move to other country, i will go at once..
the only reason i go home on holiday is just because all my friends,family,especially my beloved one live there in indonesia..

besides,i think is to late to 'repair' indonesia..
it's just waiting for its time to be shattered..

the goverment is suck..
and i bet they will always be like that until the end of time

QUOTE(wicked_witch @ Apr 12 2007, 10:24 PM) [snapback]352203[/snapback]

besides,i think is to late to 'repair' indonesia..
it's just waiting for its time to be shattered..

Dear wicked_witch,

I really disappointed with your statement there.
You seems like a desperate person in my perseption.
Remember that we are still young and there still full of long journey to success.
Well I respect your choice for not being in Indonesia, but I'll respect you more for giving our nation the best of what you can do.

Save our nation and if it not us, who else?

so,tell me then..
so far,what have u done for indonesia??
especially,what have u done to save ur nation?

hmm... could you ask yourself first before asking that tough question?

At least I'm not desperate with my country.. There's a lot things to do here and this country wouldn't be easily change just by an ordinary person like me..
There's a lot of example for this.. such as stop corruption, help the others, give some more education to the poor, etc etc..

Who do you think I am wanna change the world by my hands?

Just give it a chance instead talking like a desperado person said.. "Oh no.. it's too late we can't do anything!"
For me it just silly.

Oh yeah.. I'm a nationalist person.. You can said anything about how awful of this country but I really don't care.

Go ahead.. debate me.. again.. use your brain to show how much you don't like our nation..

Hello dude,nice to read this topic,I never write about this before,but instead of saving "porn" I will write some essay for this issue.

First of all,I proud being Indonesian,the reason is Indonesia is my hometown and I was born and growing there(sounds like hypocrite). However, a logical argument indeed,you seem having a bad feeling about Indonesia,I know that Indonesia has lots problems as you said e.g corruption,downgraded behavior and awareness, demonstration for unreliable things while there are still many things to look at within our country and domination of certain religion and also University Student's protest.

However,you have to accept Indonesia as your "best" country because that is your home country and don't say Indonesia is a "worst" country.I have read that there are another "worst" corruption countries than Indonesia.


Yeah it's definitely true.Indonesia still "sick" nowadays and with whom this country can repair the "sicknesses"?There is nothing we can do with that,the best thing we can do is don't ever make Indonesia "worser" than now.Indonesia is "worst" enough and don't make the whole world know about it.



Yo dude,ask yourself for this question,we are youth generation have the power to contribute and repair our country.All we can do is study hard and perhaps we can contribute as a president or counselor for Indonesian future.

However,let us assume you have a lot of money and you can move your whole family to United States of America and you can build a company or perhaps "companies" , but your passport still has an Indonesian Nationality,so what should you do with that?You will shame being Indonesian?Also, don't think another country is better than Indonesia.Let's say USA,my friend whom lived in USA said that USA (in his opinion) take a long time to manage the problem or arrange matters.All we can do is just received our country no matter how worst the country is.So please think it carefully before you make such a "fool" argument.

Best Regards,
Cruel Assassin.

wow.. CruelAssassin you have made a really good essay there..
I'm really touched with what you've said for being brilliant person not judging anything only from one side.

Anyway, if all of youth generation of Indonesia have the same thought and also the same motivation to repair Indonesia there's a chance for this country to be better than before.

It's our job to make this country better and not just blaming or feel sorry for the ridiculous legacy that have been given from the past.

One person maybe can not change anything.. so please unite for a better Indonesia in the future..

why should i have to?
and, who said that Indonesia is the worst country?
Hold ur imagination,bro..

objectively, Indonesia is such a beautiful country, with a lot of resources, different culture, and of course, delicious food..
but, with all of those asset, you can see, Indonesia have bunch of debts, poverty is everywhere (even u can see in Jakarta, the capital city of Indonesia, there is still a lot of poor neighborhoods),and as u said Indonesia has lots more problems like corruption, downgraded behavior and awareness, and u say u’re proud of that??
I am an Indonesian, I born in Indonesia, but I am not proud of Indonesia..i’m not a hypocrite like u!



Exactly!!
If u remember the tragedy of may 1998,lots of university students, bunch of them tried to repair the condition…after made such chaos, are they that success? There are no much changes, right? The government is still sucks!!

Now, u can see, some people are too nationalist. They make their own organization like FPI and some more in that kind.. those fools think that they’re making Indonesia better, but actually they just make it worse day by day..
if u haven't got the capability to take care of yourself yet,i think it's better not to dare take care of something else..u'll just make more mess



I can say I did do campaign for anti-drug abuse…I did volunteered for social services..
But I did those not for Indonesia…
I just do things that are right according to me..



nice joke,bro..
u see the president of Indonesia now?
In my opinion, he is trying his best to repair the condition, but do you see the people behind him,on the government..politics game..the Status quo* is just the same like before..
Do you think it’s easy to repair the country just with become a president?
Keep on dreaming..


That’s why:

according to me, it’s harder to repair the broken one than to create the new one..
maybe, if someday Indonesia is shattered and all of the status quo is gone..
replaced by a brand new brilliant people that rules the government and this country well, Indonesia may become the best country ever…
and if that really happens, then I can say, I’m proud of Indonesia. I am proud for being an Indonesian..




*a Latin term meaning the present, current, existing state of affairs



@BF crew: wow..seems so nice being u..no action talk only..

As far as I concern,Indonesia is a "burgeon" country,so that's why Indonesia has bunch of debts,poverty,and lots dirty houses.I'm saying that I have to be proud no matter how bad Indonesia is.Therefore,you need to open your mind and mull about others opinion.

You are saying that you was born in Indonesia but you don't really proud of Indonesia,so what is your nationality?What is your home country?Let us assume our parents,no matter how bad they are,you have to respect them and proud of them.So what country do you like most?Do you know that even Singapore,it still has dirty houses,poor people a.k.a poverty and however,no such thing as perfect in this world,it has some tiny thing which is imperfectly perfect.



Yeah it's definitely a wonderful things you have done to your country dude,at least you don't insult your country and don't make the whole world know about the Indonesia's poorness of quality.Keep on doing that bro.



Why???Ask yourself bro,why I must eat?Why I must breath?Is there any exact answer to answer that question?You probably ask a kind of "moron" question dude.Nowadays,lots Indonesians always say that their country is "bad." You also seem saying like that,isn't it?



Everyone has a dream and a desire to win/success!Humans can only dreaming,but in fact they are weak,selfish,dependent(rely on something),etc.Indeed,they only can dream,the journey to grab and reach that objectives and dreams are very difficult to do.Therefore,who knows in the future there is some "brilliant person" to control Indonesia and repair that country.Hence,not only President can do that,but also an ordinary peoples can do that. Yeah Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono is trying his best to repair the condition of Indonesia,at least he tries his best and try is the first step to success.I know politics game,corrupt,"behind table money" , etc are usual in every country.Again,no such thing as perfect country dude,if you think you can build your own country and you can proud of your own country,go ahead...I'll be waiting till that time comes.



So what is the point of saying this statement?It's much easier repair something than you create another one.Are you still in mind?Or your mind is going to somewhere?You are saying that you have to proud of a beautiful,wonderful,rich and familiar country?So please read my statement about USA,do you agree with that?

Best Regards,
Cruel Assassin(formerly known as DemonSlayer).

QUOTE(wicked_witch @ Apr 13 2007, 08:41 PM) [snapback]353649[/snapback]

@BF crew: wow..seems so nice being u..no action talk only..

Looks who talking now?
I just want our nation to be better.. and if you don't like it go ahead I won't insist you.. and I don't give a damn about it..
Just don't flame me OK?

@Cruel: nice speech bro.. I must learn English well like yours.. sometimes my English stuck in a moment here and giving me headache so I really speechless for what you said... but overall.. I really salute about it..

Hi all
just visitted the topic and it getting interesting by the day

Well... discussion is healthy but lets not get carried away.
Maybe Leo and Wicked Witch are right
many are dislike Indonesia for what is became today
but, as Crew and Cruel Assassin suggested plenty more people
still love Indonesia and want to become part of the new generation
that in time will bring better future for Indonesia.

BACKGROUND
Indonesia has just having independent since 1945
still to young for such huge place spreading from Sumatera down to Papua.
Before we become independent
Indonesia was simply being occupied by parasites from European country
such as Portuguese and Dutch
and last but not least the neighboring country like Japan.
They come to Indonesia with only one thing on their mind.
Took everything from Indonesia and taking as many advantages as possible.

All i am saying is Indonesia was becoming like this now
due to the dark background being occupied and when they left
the left nothing but a huge shit hole in Indonesia and washed their hands clean.

WORLD CONDITION
If you want to talk about corruption, crime, poverty and all that shits
every county has the same problem in this world.
If you hate Indonesia try leaving in Nigeria for a year
and see how you like it there

No country is providing a 100% save environment
because no one will guarantee that you will be totally safe and comfort
if you visited one's country.

HOPE
I am an Indonesia and off course it is my dream for better Indonesia
and hoping one day Indonesia will have clean government, no corruption,
and prosperity to all Indonesian.
But this dream can not be achieved in a blink of an eye
and it will take a long and painful process.
Sometimes bloody such as what happend in 98.

WORLD POLITICS
Besides, do you really think our neighboring country such as Australia
will love to see Indonesia become a super power country like the US or China?
I hope you are not innocent enough to think
the US and Australia will let Indonesia become a very big country
either economically or even military.
They will do all they can to stop that from happening.
Starting by putting Indonesia in an endless debt circle.

WHAT HAPPENED TODAY
Basically in most places, Indonesia is still developing as we speak
Some areas have a faster development some are slower
but eventually they will progressing.

Corruptions is currently the biggest crime in Indonesia
and this is sooner or later will be cleaned because the poeple
of Indonesia will want better condition.
Maybe this government can not put an end to it
but at least we still have hopes that the next government will be better.

This is what we should do
Hold the hope alive and constantly fight for better future.


GOVERNMENT
This government today is actually good (not great)
but they work really slow.
And what is so sad is that the house of representatives really
suck big time. From all 800 new rules and regulations they made
only 6% is really about improving life condition for the people
and mostly is about the regional devision.

This is actually simple for us to handle
just make sure we don't vote for them on the next election.

MY OWN PERSONAL OPINION
If someone asked me if I love Indonesia
without hesitation i will shout I STILL LOVE INDONESIA.

How do I show my love to Indonesia?
Well... I worked my ass out everyday
I don't do crime, I avoid drugs, I am active in my community
and things that are looked simple but already showing how
i behave for my country and for better future.

Thanks guys for the wonderful discussion.

Warm regards
OYM


*My Hope is Still Alive for Indonesia's Future*

I think there’s no excuse for a hypocrite to close their mind and mull about others opinion.

Well..i think nationality is based on where a person born,not on a pride of a country..
And I think you should notice that like is not same with proud.
Don’t be out of topic



well,..i can die if I don’t eat,I can die if I don’t breath..but I won’t be dead if I’m not proud of Indonesia..so,why should I? (you probably can’t even answer a kind of moron question)
well..lots of Indonesian,but I’m not..
there’s still lots of country worse than indonesia
so,once more,hold ur imagination,bro..
don’t be so easy to assume things that u can’t prove concretely.



note the bold words!
Once again,I think there’s no excuse for a hypocrite to close their mind and mull about others opinion.
If u want others to respect ur opinion,I think u should respect others too..
If according to u, It's much easier repair something than you create another one..it’s alright,but u shouldn’t push the other to have the same opinion as yours,bro..

Well..i think Indonesia is a beautiful,wonderful,rich and familiar country..
Rich?yes!!rich!!Indonesia is rich of natural resources!!!
Look at Singapore,they have no natural resources at all,but still,they don’t have bunch of debts like Indonesia..
So,what makes poverty? stupid people!!
That’s why:




ur statement just don’t make sense for me,bro
coz even I don’t proud for being an Indonesian, I’m not shame either for being an Indonesian.
So please think it carefully before you make such a naïve unproveable assumption.




@ BF: ok,sorry,mr. Crew

well,,
dont be wrong..
i'm not proud of Indonesia for what it is became today,but it doesn't mean that i dislike indonesia..
remember,the topic of this thread is proud or not,not like or dislike..
i love indonesia,but i don't proud of it yet




yup..
that's it..
take a good care of urself before u take care of something bigger..

http://www.bluefame.com/index.php?showtopic=31278

Yeah,thanks it still has lots grammar mistakes bro.Giving you headache?Eat panadol if that happens again . Try to find a meaning of the new words in dictionary dude,you will improve your English.



Am I saying such an excuse?I'm not a hypocrite person,please take a note of that.That is my sentence,don't plagiarize that dude.

I'm saying you have to be proud to be Indonesian,no matter how bad Indonesia is.Again, it depends on you to proud or not,I don't give a damn what you said about that,try to love or at least proud to be Indonesian.I have just given you such a suggestion,you have a right to refuse that or accept it.Is that still OOT(Out of Topic)?


If you die,what happen then?I really don't care if you die or not,unless you have a person that "adore" you very much so that person will sad.To answer your question,you have to open your mind and don't be closed mind person.Even your home country you don't proud of it,so if someone asks you "where are you from?" You will say you come from USA(I don't know what country you like most) instead of saying "Indonesia"?What is the point you don't proud of it yet?When someone asks me where am I from,I will answer "I come from Indonesia" and say it firmly.Again,no matter how bad Indonesia is,you have to be proud of it.



Note your sentence that I italic,you have just created your excuse ,you can move your whole family to another country you like most dude,why you don't proud to be Indonesian?Your whole family is there,your home country,you was born in Indonesia,your education begun in Indonesia,your mind is broaden in Indonesia.

You just insult the government, and if you have a chance you want to move to another country and just now you said that Indonesia is not a "bad" country?What will you do after Indonesia shatter then?

OK,one question for you,what country do you like most?Do you know even USA and Singapore,they still have poverty,dirty houses,etc?There is no such thing as perfect in this world.Where do you want to move?What is your "dream" country?Or you want to create your own country?



So why you don't proud of it yet?It definitely the condition of Indonesia makes you don't proud.In other words,you don't like Indonesia due to this reason.

Yours sincerely,
Cruel Assassin(formerly known as DemonSlayer).


TO MOD or Super Mod:thanks for editing my post(changed code to quote),but I prefer CODE than QUOTE.

Ha....ha....ha Cruel... are you in Aussie now?

Basically, I am agreeing with Cruel....

Well if you already had chance to stay in North America or Aussie then you will know more about racist and how racist white people to other race.

At the end after staying for a while in Canada, I still feel no place as good as my country "Indonesia". I am proud being Indonesian.
I don't care what other people say about Indonesia. If people want to compare Indonesia with USA, you have to remember as well that USA already independent for 200 years.... And until today who can guarantee if in USA they are really fair and no corruption at all? They are sucks as well......

Well, neighbor yard always looks greener if compare to our own yard.

One more thing to say..
I really proud for Indonesian who lives in the other country but they still proud of their nationality..

@OYM: nice speech bro..

@ekosuharto: I agree about the neighbor yard.. Actually they sucks as well but we can even figure it out because we always see how awful our yard is and never realize that other yard are even have the same problem.

As I said in shout box, I'm in Kuala Lumpur now,I'm struggling to be a "educational" person and want to know "what is the purpose of life" as soon as I graduate.xD

Anyways,you get exactly what my point is.I really like your statement dude. "Home Sweet Home."



Huehuehue,that's my home country,I have to be proud of being Indonesian.

Hey,do you know where the topic starter is?It seems he/she doesn't reply this topic yet.

A bit OOT here,
Hahaha..u’re so funny,bro
Of course I have.i’m not a pathetic person
Besides,wheter I have or not,it’s none of your business.




you are not saying such an excuse,but u are doing such an excuse.
Plagiarize? I just wanna remind u to do what u’re saying.

And I am saying NO!
I am NOT proud of Indonesia.

Are u giving a suggestion?
Oooww..sorry..but why I just feel that u’re trying to force me to change my opinion?
Ooowww..ok if u’re just giving a suggestion..
But,sorry,I have to refuse your suggestion..and thank you for giving such a suggestion.

I think proud is a kind of a feeling..
If u don’t have it,u can’t just push yourself to have that feeling.
If u say yes when u actually don’t,that’s mean u’re a hypocrite
And I’m not such a hypocrite



I think,From the beginning ‘till the end u’re blending 2 different things and keep asking it,
So,here,please notice that:

The topic of this thread is about PROUD or NOT,
Not LIKE or DISLIKE

PROUD is DIFFERENT with LIKE


Note:if u don’t agree with this,please check it on your English dictionary

@wicked witch

You are ummmmm..."Closed Mind" person,I don't want to debate with you again dude.Again,this is not such an excuse or I'm doing an excuse,maybe you must read lots books and please open your mind dude and read through my statement on the above dude.

Best Regards,
CruelAssassin.



LOL!!!!

@ cruel ass.:
yaaa...yaaa...
ok then if according to u i'm a closed mind person...
i'm a democratic person,bro
i won't force u to have an idea that i'm an open minded person if u don't
i may haven't read as lots book as u did,but at least i know what i read about..
there's no point to read if u don't really know what the meaning is

I am joining this great debate as a late participant, so i am not in the position to judge each side argument.
... and also I don't know what had happened to you relating with the fast-moving condition in Indonesia

What i do want to say is ....

All of us need an IDENTITY in this global world. You may pick the ID on whereever you want it. But the problem is, do you really acceptable in that community ? For example, if you choose to put yourself as a CHINESE, do the China people really recognize and honor you, do the government of the China or the Taiwan care about you ? If so, go ahead then.

But, i myself prefer to put my IDENTITY on the GREAT INDONESIA (INDONESIA RAYA)
I was born here
I am living here
I am proud of my country's founding father, I love Soekarno, Hatta and Soedirman the Great General
I am proud of this country history and struggle to overcome imperialism
I am proud of the beauty that God gave to Indonesia
all its forest, coast and sea
all its natural resources which is abundant
I am proud of the multicultural people that live together as it was never ever seen in other country
and ... I DARE TO STRUGGLE WITH THIS COUNTRY FOR IT HAS ALREADY BECOME MY IDENTITY

In this global world, where people LOST THEIR IDENTITY in the Cosmopolitan Culture ....
Having an Identity really makes me step confidently
I know that there is brother and sister with the same identity walking side by side with me
To fight for the better Indonesia

Some others will only watch and critisize on a lot of thing about my mother country
Some others even will try to crush and devide my beloved Indonesia
But it is my own choice, to put my faith, my life and my utmost abilites in this GREAT INDONESIA

So, it is up to you to make your own decision
But please, if you still have heart,
If you still know that you owed something to Indonesia in your past time
Don't speak too hard for my beloved country
For if you hurt her .. you also hurt me
That's all.

My stance : Yes.

I'm going to debate again because my mind wants to write some essay and perhaps you can open your mind and agree it.


Yeah,I have sense of humor a bit bro.Perhaps,you still have someone whom loved you and adore you and you can enjoy your life.However, I definitely know that is none of my business.




According to my dictionary,this is the meanings of proud

Adjective
1.Feeling deep pleasure or satisfaction as a result of one's own achievements,qualities,or possessions or those of someone whom one is closely associated.

*(of an event, achievement, etc)
causing someone to feel proud :
- We have a proud history of innovation.

2.Having or showing a high or excessively high opinion of oneself or one's importance

*conscious of one's own dignity
*figurative imposing ; splendid.

I will emphasize the bold words:

Possessions(the state of having,owning or controlling something).
Yeah dude,you have Indonesia as your home country,your beloved country,you are related to Indonesia very well and you are Indonesian descend,your mother language is Indonesia language right?I can judge myself that I proud of Indonesia because I think there is nothing we can do except that.At least we don't insulting,tell to the whole world about badnesses of Indonesia,for instances corruption,demonstration,protest,immoral country,abominable, disgusting, and repulsive country.However,to be proud of "possessing" thing is extremely difficult,you have obstacle like for example dignity,feeling of loathing,unwilling,reluctant and hard to say firmly "I come from Indonesia" due to those reasons and Indonesia's "sicknesses."

Importance(the state or fact of being of great significance or value)
Hmm,I think your nationality is important,when you work overseas,the first question they will ask is "Where are you from?" That question is very common nowadays.Again,if you don't think it is important,how you work properly?Even your nationality you don't proud of it,your pride is always f**k you.Nowadays,you can change your nationality to other nationalities,but the problem is you must have lots money to invest in some bank of that country and you must have "capital" to build a company there so that country will "believe" you will loyal to that country.My question is,What will you do if you don't proud of your nationality?You wanna change your nationality?Don't ever make Indonesia cry and lost some of "her" folks dude.


No, I don't.When I say Yes,it means yes.I'm not such a hypocrite person.Therefore,I'm very proud of being Indonesian.

However,it's up to you to make your own decision,your future is on your hands,this is only my suggestion.In my opinion,to work in your own country,you must proud or at least do something to make "her" has a feeling of deep pleasure or satisfaction of you.

Best Regards,
Cruel Assassin(formerly known as DemonSlayer).


NB:*I will reply your post and start debating with you again.

Yeah offcourse!
I`m proud being Indonesian men
becase this is my birth place men!!!
GO INDONESIA!

ok...
i'm agree that u're proud being an indonesian..
have i ever said that i'm not agree if u're proud being an indonesian?



1. i don't have a feeling of deep pleasure or satisfaction
2. i don't have or show a high or excessively high opinion

conclusion:
i'm not proud


for me,even i'm proud of not for being an indonesian..it don't really affect the way i live my life..

well..i will just live my life as usuall..keep breathing..eat..study..take a good care of myself...do things that are right according to me..etc..a lot..(i guess i don't need to make a list here,do i?)

Hmm..still don't know..just see as the time goes by..

hahahahaha...
who the hell am i that i can make indonesia cry? (even i never think that it can cry actually.. )
besides,i never tend to cause any harm to indonesia or any other country even i don't have any pride on them..


OMG!!!
thx God...
at last u said that...if u did't,i think i would begin to think that u were a kind of psycho who have no other job beside forcing another person to be proud of indonesia.

Guys, have you ever seen "The Interpreter" movie?
That what I called nationalism...

When a white girl (Nicole Kidman) fight for her "fictional" country in Africa called "The Republic of Matobo"
She fought for her country, for what she believed and for what that she have been loved with.
That's because she was born in that country, even if all of her family was killed by the fascist government of Matobo but she still fight for her country to make her country better.
You must realize that she is a white girl, totally different with African majority and race is almost 100% problem in South African belt.
She's using her brain to fight in the United Nations for being interpreter. And yet she did it well.

A must watch movie for your fresh thinking about how what term about our country is

@wicked_witch


sorry bro, FPI it's not nationalist, because they use religion for they "shield" to get what they want. And one think you should know, Indonesia is not a "negara agama" but Indonesia is "negara beragama", soo FPI is not nationalist I think.

note : sorry if I use some Indonesian phrase, because my english is very poor. But I think you know waht I mean, because when I read your reply, I think you're Indonesian who get school or get work at the other nation

Wow,I haven't see that film...I think from your trailer I have to see that film


LOL,so what is the difference between "negara agama" and "negara beragama?" Therefore,I don't smell you.

I think I knnow what @eoshi means by "negara agama" and "negara beragama"
But then ough... I could only explain you in Bahasa, otherwise it'll become "north-south" a.k.a "ngalor-ngidul" (halah aphro...aphro)
Sorry guys... it's just an intermezzo. Because I feel tension here. Chill out Ok

@AphroDitee

Huh?Since this issue is in English,so try to elaborate what does negara beragama mean and negara agama as well....Apparently,I don't understand what does it mean.Anyway,yeah not only sis,I also feel some tension over here.xD.

@CruelAssassin
hmm It's to hard to explain about two phrase what I say because I can't speak english goodly. hmm... how I can explain that with English talk? can you help me mr cruel? if you can, I will PM you, soo you can translate that to English words.

mm since I have a free time, I will try to translate your PM dude....

eoshicute said:

According to my observation, "negara agama" is a country which is believed in one religion and that religion used for the part of it government administration(e.g. in some Arab countries).On the contrary,Indonesia is not "negara agama" but a country which has 6 religions(I think 5 huh?).And why the heck FPI is not nationalist?

• If they are nationalist,They shouldn't bring the religion fame and they should exactly bring the country fame to do their anarchistic action.
• Due to they don't care about their country,They only care about their religion.Again,in my opinion they also don't care if our country will shatter.

NB: So hard to translate your sentence bro,because I also don't understand what your intention is.

@Cruel
thank's ma bro

for this topic, my opinion is here.

But to be honest, in my opinion, topic like this is out of date. This is something we should put in the past. In this modern day, i prefer to discuss about what is good to do for this country, how to act some good things in our local area base on our ability with global minds as a background, and how to improve our skill and quality. Lets think global and act local. thats will make our life easier.


keep cool ;)

Out of date?There is nothing in this world which is out of date since we can continue discussing and debating it.Let's think global?What do you mean?Honestly,I don't smell you...Make your life easier?How?

Anyways,there is an interesting quotation from John F.Kennedy(maybe you guys have heard this quotation in Moral Lessons):
"Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country."

I'm not saying that I already did something which is useful for Indonesia.Therefore,I'm still young and can't do anything besides study hard and don't insult Indonesia as the worst country.We are youth generation and again,who else will be a president or someone whom take over the Indonesia's government except us?

where were u in pre-98 era? on those days, "are you proud being an Indonesian" is an out of question, But "How we save the country". How? Mass action against the old regime. if today, we still ask about proud being an Indonesia, for me, personally, likes throw me back to the pre historic age. But please remember, this is my own head opinion.



You know my dear friend, one of biggest handicap we have as a nation-state, is too much discourse based on segmented mind frame.
You and the folk here already discuss some sample.

We need to watch Indonesia as Indonesia in the holistic way. Not from Javanese view, Balinese view, Islamic view nor anything else. Indonesia as Indonesia, and since Indonesia have huge differences ethnic, culture, etc etc etc, ...we can't thread all of those in the same way. Every local area have a local method to solve their problem. But the problem is, since "Soeharto Era", Local methods, local wisdom, dying and replaced with P4.

easier? Of coz. You only need to do some good in your local area, which is easier to handle, and to manage. The rest, there will be many idealist out there to do the similar things.



I like that quotation, but love more to this one : Sukarno speaks

==============
out of CA post
==============

and...what did you do for your country...????
I hates this question. Why...people always asking what ppl do for the country, why they not ask them self what did they do?

I prefer do says something like this,
"Hey Crew you did the great job to maintained and keep this bluefame exist. Not everyone can do this. Two thumbs up!"

or
"I like your story..so inspiring....keep the good job.."

etc etc...

so please try to appreciate and make ppl proud bout what they do....not send them to the corner by asking,.."what did you do for your country..."

Basically,I agree with your statement,but it seems you are very nationalist (let's moving forward and don't think about the past anymore).

What does P4 refer to?I'm not quite understand about this statement dude.(xD)

Yeah,nice speech from Soekarno,I like that as well.I forgot to put my fellow Americans...The quotation should be:so my fellow Americans,"Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country." (It means the quotation is for American only but in fact I'm confused why in every Moral book that I have read,it says like that and they didn't write "my fellow American."



Hehe, am I asking what you have done for your country?=) ,anyways, nice comment dude.I really appreciated it.

Best Regards,
CruelAssassin.

QUOTE(pro @ Apr 30 2007, 12:29 PM) [snapback]377958[/snapback]

I prefer do says something like this,
"Hey Crew you did the great job to maintained and keep this bluefame exist. Not everyone can do this. Two thumbs up!"

Hey pro.. thanks..
Wow your English really good..

because my poor english i can't talk to much in here i just want ask @wicked_witch you not proud to indonesian goverment or indonesian country? iam proud to indonesian country but not proud to the goverment

@ benchen: both

@pro: yup..i'm agree with u..it's out of date..
further more,i don't think that it's really important

Nek kowe rak bangga dadi wong endonesa, minggat`o kono ndes!!!

@bang momod:über was du sprichst, ich verstehe nicht..

Please use English.. as this is English channel Talk room..

absoulutely....
i am proud of being indonesian......
lovely country....
despite of every sucks things....
but i am proud of it....
it just so ridiculous to see other indonesian blame their country...no sense of belonging...

The thing that Indonesian can be proud of is for the natural beauty of diverse environment, cultures and tradition.
Our archipelago host several unique species that cannot be found in any other parts of the world. Like Komodo Dragon, and Cendrawasih the bird of Paradise.
Our diverse and tribal culture is quite unique in it self. One nation with different culture. Something you rarely find in other countries. Not to mention, several of our cultural dances and art has been promoted and shown around the world.

In Netherlands, every city has their own culture day festival once a year. And sometimes I found Indonesian dances being shown there. Mostly are Balinese dance. I was awed how the Dutch admire it. One time I found a Dutch woman dance it, although she doesn't move as smooth as the real one do. When I was in Indonesia during five months ago. I see on television and newspaper about Angklung school in Bali that filled with western foreigner who are learning to play it. I believe the Australian schools have lesson on our culture.

This is a side of our country that be proud of. Only thing sadly, we ourselves don't appreciate our own cultural gift. Young people nowadays just want to be cool and get in with the latest trend. If it were not for a handful of youth in every city that are learning on dances, I believe our cultural deterioration would be much faster. Ever seen one of those shows in Discovery Channel / National Geographic about a dying cultural tribe? I surely don't want our cultural heritage to be only written in books and having stuff being displayed in museum.

Our Flora and Fauna is quite the treasure we can offer the world to see and admire. Westerners love to see animals in the wild. Why do you think those Americans planning to go to Africa for holiday? <- a typical example.
Because in some part of the western worlds, especially UK. Animals are rarely seen anymore. In United Kingdom, several species of birds are dying. I've meet a student Oxford once.
I still remember his word. "You from Indonesia? It's a beautiful country, beautiful! I love seeing the animals there... not like here. You don't see animal anymore in the forest, except for squirrels and ticks. You must preserve it."

Overall, if we can raise our awareness of nature I'm sure we wouldn't have trouble with flood disaster, coral reef damages, and turning a species into extinction. Still, it's a looong way ahead... just pity that our government just thinking about useless matters.

@PacePapua

Wow,I'm very hilarious read your essay about this issue. I have never seen kind of person like you(which is describe all Indonesia's surpluses and thus you didn't say about some "flaw" in Indonesia).Yeah I like those kind of animals like for examples Komodo Dragon,Cendrawasih Bird,etc. We have to protect them no matter what due to "scarcity" problem of that animals.

Oxford's students?He said like that?I'm very upset read his sentence.



OMG?I know somewhere in Netherlands ( I thinks Suriname) there is some Indonesian people like Javanese.They can speak Indonesian and as you said,they also can dance our traditional dance.Watch your words if you are in bus or somewhere,don't ever insult a Netherlands people with Indonesian language,they can understand you.For example,my friend told me that his friend from Indonesia insulting(talking about his flaw with Indonesian language) the guy who sits next to him in bus.When they was dropping off from Bus,the guy said "Terima Kasih atas pujiannya" and therefore my friend's friend was very upset heard that "irony" from the guy. =)

Didn't I pointed out the "flaw" in subtle manner in my essay? Of course, you could add it at your convinient.
Anyway, I'm sure you've been doing nature travel before? Probably rafting, camping stuff like that.




Oh upset? In what ways? Please explain.







I'm pretty sure I heard that joke somewhere before. Only it was in Indonesia with an expat involved in the story.
For 3 years until now, the only Dutch (Not Suriname or any first/second generation Indonesian descent) that can speak / understand Bahasa are the gramps and grannies who has lived / born in Indonesia and young people who spent their time in Indonesia before (Mostly in Bali).

Suriname is in South America FYI. On contrary to what most people think they know where it's located.
There are Surinamese in Netherlands, just like any other immigrants from other parts of the world. Actually most Surinamese don't know Indonesian language, they only know javanese and dutch or english). If you indeed insulting in with a Java words. Of course they understand! My friend over here met a Surinamese who can't understand Bahasa at all. So he resorted using Javanese to converse instead.

Overall only very few Dutchies in Netherlands knows insults in Bahasa. Unless you planning to talk bahasa in Suriname, now that's a different story.
Btw, if you hear some people speak Bahasa there. I can assure you, that they are immigrants. There's a lot of Indonesian immigrants in Den Haag.

Yup,that was only a Joke,I didn't see with my eyes so I'm also not sure whether the story is true or not and therefore, I didn't read through your essay.I just scanning it and only read the topic sentence and your conclusion,sorry my dear bro.

Anyways,talk to you next time,I will reply you again probably this weekend,I have some school stuffs to do =) Nice to talk with you..

Pedoman Penghayatan dan Pengamalan Pancasila.

Even though I have been living in the US for sometimes, Yes I am proud being an Indonesian and being an Indonesian citizen.